Some episodes of this podcast have an extremely tight focus — a specific topic, inspected under scrutiny. Some episodes are like walks through a beautiful park, stopping and admiring different beautiful moments and places.

My conversation with Francis Laleman — a trainer-of-trainers, a facilitation teacher, and an excellent facilitator in his own right — was most certainly one in the latter category. We spent an hour or so weaving our way through big questions and small curiosities. It was a joy and an opportunity for both of us to think more deeply about the fundamentals of our work.

Explore the depths of change, the art of not doing anything, and the hidden designs we create in our lives and work.